Prof. Gary Francione VS Dr. Steve Best

August 22, 2009 at 2:33 pm 5 comments

We all know that Gary Francione and Dr. Steve Best are never going to come to an agreement on the best route to animal abolition by a simple debate. So I think its time for a trance off to settle this matter. *Warning Flashing lights*



Entry filed under: ethics, Flash, vegan. Tags: .

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  • 1. Dr. Steven Best  |  August 28, 2009 at 5:39 am

    Gloomy Vegan:

    I must say, you are taking demagoguery and disinformation to a new level. You claim to be a general supporter of my AR views, but are obviously a Franciombe and nearly at the point of being a troll on Camille’s blog.

    You may criticize me and MDA all you want, you can even compare me to Hitler some more (nice light touch there). I enjoy and learn from debate.

    But look, you have no idea what you are talking about on one key point, so let me save you some trouble from spreading the same lie and disinformation over and over, and Prof. Francione himself should have qualified this and corrected you, being the champion of fairness that he purports to be.

    I never ran from a debate with GF, I was the one initially to ask for the debate. Gary finally accepted, but only with 2-3 “moderators,” and you can draw whatever interpretations from that you like. Gary walked from the Marr interview, not me, and no matter what, a lot of people find this suspicious.

    Were the conditions different, I would gladly debate him on the Vegan Freak radio show, with Torres, or all of his uncritical followers, including you. I said I would debate him “anywhere, anytime, anyhow.” I meant it then, still do know, and always will. I hope we have many debates, in fact, and bring on Lee Hall or any soldier in Gary’s army of vegan pacifist abolitionist bloggers.

    ANYONE, ANYTIME, ANY CONDITIONS. I am serious about this, so cut the crap please.

    If you have a scintilla of responsibility or journalistic ethics, please note:

    The reasons why I had hesitation in giving my final assent to debating GF on Skype (after initially agreeing with glee) were:

    First, I was at school teaching the entire time Gary was firing off Facebook messages declaring me a coward, and pushing and pushing challenges and making accusations all day long. But I was away from email and unable to respond immediately, and thus clear away any doubt of my will, intent, and resolve; meanwhile, you and other “nonviolent” Gandhians were fabricating your feel-good, pathetic self-confirmation of my alleged fear and hesitation. Bravo to you all, to quote PETA, “Victory!”

    Second, I was trying to honor an obligation to a friend, Anthony Marr, who asked me not to agree definitively to do the Skype debate (after I had already agreed) because he still wanted to persuade Gary to do the debate on his show.

    You or others could not possibly be privy to the complex backgrounds conditions I was faced with all day yesterday, but please stop jumping to hysterical conclusions. You pacifists all have such compassion, understanding, non-aggressive, loving, and winning ways with people, don’t you?

    But there are your facts, Gloomy Vegan – whoever you are hiding behind your cloak of anonymity (let’s talk about cowardice, shall we?) — and please stop distorting the situation. Live up to the exalted ethics you and your pacifist ilk preach to feel morally superior to the rest of us.

    Obviously you people know nothing about “right speech” and ahimsa, the very principles you pay lip service to; put it into practice, would you all please? And do so on a very concrete, day-to-day level, with your blogging discourse for a start.

    Can you understand the principles of friendship? Of loyalty? Oh honor?

    If you can, then you will know why I could not confirm and reconfirm the Skype debate, which I finally did last night, when Tony said it was fine to do so, once he recognized Gary’s implacable resolve not to come on his show. And all the while you Jumping Jains were trashing me with your verbal violence.

    Maybe you ahimsaholics don’t know anything about honesty, loyalty, and integrity, but I do. And I gave final confirmation when I could and only then. I stood by a friend rather than capitulated to coercion and shit-talking and disinformation that still continues, and I have no regrets.

    So I will thank you in advance for ending your little disinformation campaign, which I am sure is amusing to you, but is false, dishonest, slanderous, and anything but ahimsa. Apparently some of us “violence” mongers have something to teach you all about peace, charity, and ahimsa.

    Think about it.

    Steve Best

  • 2. erin  |  August 30, 2009 at 9:00 pm

    hey steve, what’s all this about “web trashing” and the like? i must’ve blacked out for a day because i don’t remember reading anything of the sort. by the way, being a pacifist does not equal being weak, self deprecating, or cowardly. we just don’t believe violence solves problems. in other words, i COULD kick your ass but i choose not to :P!

  • 3. ~*Tammy*~ Chaplain For Animals~  |  November 8, 2009 at 10:30 pm

    You and Anthony bullied Gary. You two were in cahoots over the debate and had an agenda to ambush him. You have attacked him in previous shows unjustly and Anthony Marr did not protect Gary in those interviews which were ONE SIDED and Callous as You tend to be. You attack Vegans and don’t give them credit where credit is due.
    Everyone is on the same Team to Help Save Animals lives, and we don’t need pompous attitudes which attack innocent people who are here to make a difference in Animals lives for the Better!

  • 4. coreywrenn  |  February 3, 2013 at 5:11 pm

    I am a Francionian til the end, but this is still hilarious.

  • 5. Anonymous  |  February 10, 2014 at 12:58 am

    Gary Francion thinks he is alway right and feels he is better better than everyone


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